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tv   The Impeachment Inquiry White House in Crisis  CNN  October 11, 2019 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT

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you remember he slammed his mostly black district. part of baltimore. as rat infested. he attacks others including adam schiff, nancy pelosi. chuck schumer. who are the leaders of the party. the only lawmakers who got more negative tweets this summer than the congresswomen of color and cummings. take this into account. our live coverage continues with laura coates "white house in crisis: the impeachment inquiry." you got your work cut out for you. tell us what you have tonight. >> first of all i can't believe that happened in my home state of minnesota. having boos for people who are immigrants to the particular state and the country. that actually is shocking to me. it reiterates the point time and time again. people don't realize if it's washington d.c. you can be a hero without villainizing people
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who are not villains. trs quite a week. of all the weeks it's quite a week. things keep happening quickly. you cannot turn away. >> you can't. i can't believe that what we talked about this refugees. is coming out of the president's mouth. what he says at the rallies. what he says on the white house lawn and on and on. and the people he surround himself with. all the best people. >> he knows lots of great words too. that's not really the point. today we're talking about so many things about what is at stake for the president of the united states going forward and surrounds himself with people who says the best people. tonight we're focusing on somebody he is surrounded himself for quite sometime. and we're wondering if he'll have that ten foot pole come out now. the distancing himself. why didn't anyone see this sooner. >> why me.
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>> saying a lot of things. >> probably watching now. why me? >> let's get to the news. this is a cnn special hour "white house in crisis: the impeachment inquiry." i'm laura coates. tonight i'm going to take you through the top headlines in late breaking news on the impeachment inquiry. into trump. headlines and breaking news rudy giuliani reported to be under investigation by federal prosecutors. according to the "new york times." sources tell the times investigators are looking into whether he broke lobbying laws in his dealings in ukraine. that as president trump says he doesn't know if giuliani is his still lawyer. both giuliani and president trump in focus on capitol hill today. as she testified about the effort to remove her as
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ambassador to ukraine. and what she calls false claims. the president facing major set backs in the court. after five rulings against him including one over his financial records. what does it mean for the impeachment inquiry? we'll get into that with cnn political commenter. cnn legal analyst and giuliani biographer. let's begin with cnn following the developments in the impeachment inquiry and a late breaking story within the trump administration. >> that's right. another departure from the white house. that's kevin mcaleenan. the acting secretary of homeland security. he submitted his resignation tonight. he served since april. and a source says he feltd he had accomplished all he could. since an immigration deal in congress doesn't seem likely.
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sources say the announcement has been planned for weeks and wants to spend time with his family. this maybe a small set back for the trump administration. of course a bigger cloud looms over the white house and that is the impeachment inquiry. >> testifying about the month long campaign to have her removed as ambassador to ukraine and the rudy giuliani. president trump appeared to waiver on whether he continues giuliani his personal attorney. >> giuliani moved quickly to clear that up. telling a reporter he represents the president. a source close to trump legal team says he won't be dealing with ukraine issues. even though ukraine is at the center of the impeachment investigation. >> this as sources say the president has expressed concern about his personal attorney. after two of giulianis
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associates were arrested and charged with campaign finance violation as they tried to leave the country. both had been helping giuliani on his request for dirt on the bidens. coming out in a closed door deposition. a current state department employee and 33 year vet of the foreign service. i do not know his motives for attacking me. according to a copy obtained by the "new york times" and "washington post." individuals who have been named in the press as contacts of giuliani may have believed their personal financial ambitions were stymied by the policy in ukraine. >> this is a good person who served 30 years in the foreign service. thrown to the wolves. by giuliani representing the financial interest of his indicted associates and president trump. advancing political interest in trying to get an investigation started in ukraine of the
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bideens. >> after being asked to extend to to 2020. she testified she was called in late april and told to catch the next plane home. the u.s. government chose to remove an ambassador based as best as i can tell on unfounded and false claims by people with clearly questionable motives. she said in her statement the deputy secretary of state told her the department had been under pressure from the president to remove me since summer 2018. he said that i had done nothing wrong. while trump trashed the ambassador in his july call with the ukraine president. tonight he played dumb. >> she maybe a wonderful woman. i don't know her. she maybe very much a wonderful woman. >> her appearance a sign the white house is effort to stone wall impeachment inquiry may crumble in the face of congressional subpoena. next week ambassador to the euro european union sondland plans to testify under subpoena. >> after her full day of testimony, democrats came away
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saying she was a powerful and credible witness. republicans hour took issue with the process. saying they should all be conducted in public. >> thank you. joining me now. mark and carry. glad you're here. let me begin with you the "new york times" is reporting that federal investigators are looking at whether giuliani broke any lobbying lawing with dealings in ukraine. talk to me about the legal implications of this. >> i think what they're referring to in the reports are the foreign agents registration act. which ironically is the same criminal statute that paul manafort, michael flynn were implicated in and charged with. what it involves is when you're representing a foreign interest that could be a foreign person or foreign government, and you don't register properly with the justice department. it's a registration requirement. the question is if that's what they are -- again this is a new
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report. if that's the government is investigating him for the question is whether he followed this law. whether he registered and it's a criminal violation. there could be other things too. when they made the arrests at dallas airport of his two associates they just charged them with one charge on four different violations. it looked lilk there was probably a lot of ongoing investigation they had to quickly amend to file the charges. and there's probably a lot going on behind the scenes. >> they can of course still add charges to that. it's not over once the indictment is issued. president trump is saying he doesn't ech know if rudy giuliani is his lawyer. is he too tainted at this point for the president to even acknowledge him? >> no question he is. when the president's lawyer is lawyering up, you can't be the president's lawyer anymore. not only lawyering up but on the issue and the in the very country that's involved in the
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central investigation of the impeachment. so, rudy giuliani -- the president already today was talking in the past tense about him. he's gone quickly. and really the two associates that were involved beg so many questions. it's hard to keep this puzzle straight. think about it, they're helping giuliani dig dirt on joe biden. at the same time they have problems with the ambassador. aprntly a reportedly because they were trying to get special gas deals and she was in the way. she was had an anticorruption effort going on. the way the lines cross is just amazing and astonishing. we'll find out more. >> it's a mess. you say the testimony from the ambassador that he's talking about the former ambassador it makes clear that really diplomacy, national security. those are used for political purposes.
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>> that really was i think a central theme of the public statement released publicly she made today and we'll find more about what she said behind closed doors. that was the key point i took away. she was really sounding the alarm. from her point on the inside, different than what we are observing outside, she was seeing the lovers of government. foreign diplomacy conducted by the state department or individuals that are representing themselves as doing interest in diplomacy. national security decisions. corruption issues she mentioned the corruption issues are national security issues. because they pertain to how people are motivated to take action. all of these issues are potentially being handled by people who are not acting in the united states interest. they're handled by people doing work perhaps at the behest of the president who are affiliated with president and close to him. and doing it if for their political interest.
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perhaps business interest. what she's painting is a picture of government that is not holding up so well. i'm talking about our own government, institutions and state department. we hear people say the institutions are holding up and we'll get through sort of this difficult time with this president who doesn't respect laws and norms and that actually they're being impacted and her removal for reasons that were unrelated to pr performance. and potentially she was get lg in the way of this subversion of proper diplomatic process is evidence of that. >> she points out in her opening statement the idea the united states cavaliers across the globe. and misinformation campaign. pompeo was saying his department will do everything its lawfully required to do to honor house subpoenas.
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but also told this to the tennesseen. i think the only ones who think zelensky was pressured are handful of folks in the media and a bunch of folks on capitol hill. democratic party trying to take down this president. are either of those true? >> not from any facts we can ascertain. the one thing that come through so far, it was a deposition hearing and that can't be made public. but the characterization of the testimony from congressman heck earlier. suggests and what we hear from republicans as well. is that this is a 30 year civil servant. a true servant of democracy. she was a classic diplomat. and nobody is really questioned her integrity or character. so it's going to be hard for the president allies to suggest as they have been trying to with everybody else this is a deep state partisan coup attempt.
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she was trying to do her job and do the rite thing. it will be difficult for her character or testimony to be indicted. >> stay with me. something tells me they'll find some way to try. up next democrats are trying to keep the impeachment inquiry focussed on one thing. but is that a bad thing? i'll make my case next. oh, come on. flo: don't worry. you're covered. (dramatic music) and you're saving money, because you bundled home and auto. sarah, get in the house. we're all here for you. all: all day, all night. (dramatic music) great job speaking calmly and clearly everyone.
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they fear the american has some sort of post-traumatic stress from the duration of the mueller probe and the 400 page we were asked to read. the web of names or cast of characters from game of thrones. what that person's name again? remind me what that person did to the other one that one time. not that guy. the other one. with the thing. and the thing. by the time the mueller report ends the american people were drained and some out raged by the impression it was all for not. a lesson from the era of mueller. keep it simple. there was a phone call. with a foreign president. the ukrainians wanted military aid. trump wanted dirt on joe biden. the law says you can't do that. the president is supposed to advocate for american interest. not his own campaign interest. got it. simple plot line. the democratic leadership strategy. and at least earl will on many in the party were good to go with ukraine or bust. like a reality show, each new
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day creates a but wait there's more moment. more whistleblowers. more evidence. more witnesses. more subpoenas for information. more testimony. more signs of abuse of power. the china comments alone openly inviting fresh election meddling. yet, the democratic leadership clenches to the original simple plot line. apparently reluctant to introduce anything that might lead to a 400 page report. is this sound is congress really afraid of the american would be overwhelmed or strike thatically streamlining the inquiry to avoid running out of time before the 2020 election? maybe both. the impeachment of a president requires a comprehensive inquiry. not a slow inquiry. i said a comprehensive inquiry. exhaustive not exhausting.
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or as congressman put it. we have an obligation to see just how deep the sewage flows. there maybe enough information to substantiate a claim that he abused his power. with foreign election e interference. but don't put your blinders on to the rest. today alone the court issued rulings in five separate cases concerning the president. each answering a separate question. but fra are e leasing tax returning to paying for a border wall with the emergency funds to making it harder for people to get a green card if they use public benefits. the trump white house lost today. in fact, all week the courts have rejected any argument that congress is powerless compared to the president or congress is oversight function is somehow invalid because it's inconvenient for the president. kitchen sink argument went down
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the judicial drain this week. focus is not so non-mouse with tunnel vision chlts a fresh look at the facts. doing so doesn't fatally under mine the impeachment inquiry. if the house does vote to impeach, they will have to prove their case using the evidence they gathered during the inquiry to persuade a mostly hostile senate. if they shorthand the inquiry, they will shortchange the american people. and it is that simple. back with me now. mark mckinnen and keri. i want to come to you. what do you think, does congress need to change their plan to focus narrowly on ukraine? should they be doing more? >> i think they need to keep it simple. dumb it down so my mama can understand it. mama can understand the
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conversation with ukraine. the problem is i understand your argument you're making. the impeachment is such a hot spot that any democrat on any possible relevant committee wants that spotlight. you have to make sure and keep the focus narrow. or else they'll find a reason to find a thread to get on tv to hold their own hearings and by the way they're talking about going back and doing stuff last year. so i think the smartest person on either party is nancy pelosi. she understands get this sucker done by christmas. and move on. >> your focus is on you think it's about people who are trying to steal the limelight opposed to the inquiry. interesting point. i want to ask you trump took beater in the judicial today. five different rulings. not going his way. is this what happens when the president trying to force through what he wants without thinking of the legal consequence? or making good enough legal arguments here. >> well, the hallmark of the
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trump administration and the first three years is without doing the hard legal analysis and hard work to make sure the policy you issue actually has a sound legal basis. actually has been vetted and likely to survive judicial challenge. so, basically, it's a way of governing that is lazy. and that is also purely politically motivated. when he has a political objective he says let's make a policy. he staffs the government with people who are willing to implement it. that's why over at dhs we have so many components and the head of the agency is leaving. and it's been acting capacity for many months. he puts in positions of authority in the agencies people who are not going to push back on the policies that are not based in law and process. and so this is the result.
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just this week is a snapshot of the combination of the way that he's been trying to govern. and for example the emergency case on the border, that has been litigated by organizations that is a consortium from conservative lawyers all agreeing that the position the administration was taking on emergency authority for the border was not based nd any law. >> yet it continued and persisted. we'll probably see more. lesson for the president united states today. thank you. i'll have you back. rudy giuliani once america's most revered mayor. now a lot of legal experts think he could be facing criminal charges of his own. up next we'll trace his roller costar career with a man who has known him for decades. ♪
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one thing is clear, the walls appear to be closing in on rudy giuliani. even the president has disstanced hi disstanced himself in the wake of this weeks event. first his two soeshlts were arrested hours after having lunch with giuliani at a trump hotel. second, new reports implicate giuliani in a scheme to pressure former secretary of state rex tiller son to help get a case against a prominent foreign
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client dropped. so, what happened? this is the rudy giuliani people remember. america's >> i recognize him. he has changed throughout the years. not for the better. you need a psychologist as much as a political reporter to analyze what exactly has happened to him. i covered him for a decade.
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prior to nine lem9/11. he was one of the most beloved men on the planet. he wageered it all on the presidential race in 2008. and it was a disaster. he walked away with one delegate. and kind of was out in the wilderness. donald trump was his taicket bak to relevance and has been willing to squander stature and dignity in service of power and money. >> it's odd in that somebody who as you say was craving that power, seen as this presence was beloved. you were with him on 9/11. a picture with him the day he was there. and there you are there. to go from that and somebody who was commanding. beloved in that way.
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doesn't it seem odd that you would seek out to be a subordinate with somebody a larger than life persona and thoughts of being loved? >> it's a good question. he didn't have a will the of options. donald trump was one of few people who needed rudy giuliani. he didn't have a kind of circle. political circle. giuliani was a personality and again, there weren't a lot of people calling giuliani for his help. >> given the fact that rudy giuliani before he was mayor he was running the sdny. how ironic for you now to think about that office looking into his financial dealings with the ukraine? >> it's ironic and sad. this is his accomplishments at this southern district of new york are the stuff of legend. there could be still a powerful mafia in the city if not for rudy giuliani. he did extraordinary things as a
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prosecutor. he did extraordinary things as a mayor. this is a person who achieved greatness. and for him to have kind of taken this path down toward i don't know what you call it. cynicism. is a very sad thing. >> what made me even sadder is that this fall out of the with the president. he came out today the president and distanced himself from giuliani. what happened with cohen. who was somebody who was close to trump. now find himself in the prison. here is the president talking about rudy giuliani in way we haven't seen yet. >> i don't know. i haven't spoken to hoim. yesterday briefly. he's a very good attorney. he has been my attorney. sure. >> so, tell me, he's not even
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his attorney? he doesn't know? >> it's not a surprise that trump is willing to kind of cut him loose. giuliani from what reports say, his business dealings with under investigation. i have no inside knowledge. is he facing indictment i don't know. if trump is looking at this and wondering whether or not giuliani is kind of a toxic presence right now, when trump is so vulnerable as it is. trump has never shown reluctance to cut people loose. i think if he does, it seems he might be on the way to doing that. it will be interesting. giuliani is not going to be like tillerson or mattis. and goes gently into the the night. he'll go down in flames. in a blaze of glory. it will be like a king kong vs. god zil l.a. if they turn on each other. >> there's giuliani who dressed and appeared in the video in
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drag. in a roast in 2000. what draws them together? >> they're very like minded gentlemen. there's kind of a to both of them. they both feel they have cornered truth and morality. and there's a street wise thing they learned from their youth in new york city. they get along. they're buds. >> fascinating. thank you for being on the show. it's interesting to think about what will happen next. just how many trump associates are now in prison? under investigation or indictment? we'll take a big picture look at the rogue gallery of characters surrounding the president. next. ♪
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so how far does one take a sense of duty in serving the president? at what cost? as many in trumps world become tangled in the impeachment inquiry the president takes great pains to distance himself from those in the cross hairs of the investigation. he did it again today with rudy giuliani. the latest in his circle to come under fire. joining me now.
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glad to have you both. juliette, there's a growing list of people in trumps orbit who have fallen into legal trouble. the latest being ngted for lobbying laws his personal lawyer rudy giuliani. trump surrounded himself with violators and enablers. explain that. >> the people who are breaking the law. that's just a group is too big to name at this stage. it's shockingly big. you have the next group of people which are the enablers. the people who are nodding and allowing this to happen. senate republicans and fox news. sort of not being able to answer a simple question like is it wrong for a president to essentially ask another country to look for dirt on his political competitor? i actually add a third group. this is the group that's becoming interesting in this time. the apologists.
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who say i don't like all this stuff he's doing but i like the tax cuts or environmental regulations and what they have to realize is there's a through line between the tax cuts and what's happening to the kurds or the new judges and what's happening with at the border. in other words, trump is animated by a singular motivation. himself. and obviously economic interest. the third group you're starting to see some of the shifting going on. there's no two trumps. there's no good trump and bad trump. this is trump. that's the group that is interesting. >> what we're finding out about giuliani and ukraine is this. is this just the tip of the iceberg? we have a will the of information here. >> she makes a good point. to summarize when you lay down with dogs you get flees. trump as continuously surrounded
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himself with drifters sp hacks and who will tell him what he wants to hear. but are kind of have a three stoojs quality. and if you look at what's happening now, it's the chickens are coming home to roost. the there the first thing you do any administration, before i was chief counsel of the judiciary committee. i ran the over sight committee. i have seen hundreds of investigations. the first thing you do is get the bad facts out and pledge cooperation. and then you try to tell your story. and that's it's a simple template in a scandal the way this administration is in the middle of now. they're adopting the bad bad bob strategy. trump saying everything is under control. this is a witch hunt. as tanks are getting ready to roll over him. what's relevant is that you have
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so many loose ends here now. russia is brought back into this by virtue of the fact the campaign finance situation. that the southern district of new york is looking into. the diplomats you have two camps of diplomats involved in ukraine. one who want to tell the truth and one who want to cover the truth. you have inside the administration utter chaos. there's lots of voices inside the administration. who want to come out and be on the right side of this issue. they don't want to be obstructionist. the administration doesn't control that. you have a situation with the southern district of new york. they are looking at giuliani and who knows what else. another situation they can't contain. and congress. all indications are that the cracks in the wall with the senate republicans are occurring. you have the activity going on. this chaos. and administration that can't kind of get control of all the
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drifters she's talking about. this spells the worst possible situation. >> the word is chaos. juliette, spell it out. >> hold on. both of you. very sound points and one thing the question the american people the idea any give p moment any of the people can be in any of the categories. we're waiting to see who will be next. thank you to both of you. i appreciate it. is the widening impeachment inquiry causing president trump to act erratically? we'll talk about that next. to present to you today. [son]: who are you talking to? [son]: that guy's scary. the first item on the list is selecting a chairman for the... for the advisory board what's this? as well as use the remaining... child care options run out.
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he's out there giving rallies, which we know makes him feel better. but is that what he should be doing right now? >> it is because a, it makes him feel better. it rejuvenates him. but also it feeds the base. if you looked at that rally for even one second this evening and the same with the one in minnesota, those people are not paying attention to the impeachment inquiry. they are not paying attention to the supreme court cases that came down today. they are paying attention 100% to the energy and the enthusiasm they are getting fed from president trump. and this not only helps him, but it helps to get out the vote. it keeps them energized, and it is abundantly clear that it is a good way for him to understand that his base supports him. they support his policies. he was also able to talk about certainly immigration and the economy and things that he does have that are positive strengths of his presidency and keep the
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focus away from, as you say, a lot of the things that are not positive that are going on in washington. >> bakari, what's your reaction to that because is this impeachment inquiry causing the president to really behave more erratically on these rallies? you saw him criticize people like ilhan omar and others, even the peter strzok, lisa page, the whole infatuation discussion. is this a good plan for him? >> i don't think he's acting more erratically. i think this is the same person we know who came down the steps and called mexicans rapists. this is the same president and the same donald trump that's always been. he's always been erratic in my opinion. i do think he's doing something quite well to alice's point. i think there are two different processes going on. one, you have impeachment politics, which he's actually playing very well. then you have the judicial proceeding. you have the legislative proceeding which is going on and the legal proceeding, which is this impeachment inquiry, which he's losing and getting dealt
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body blow after body blow after body blow. in terms of the impeachment politics, he's going out to these rallies. he's beating up those individuals. he's calling out the deep state. he's calling out fake news. he's doing what donald trump does best, and he's giving red meat to his base. on the legal side, on the legislative side, he's losing those battles night in and night out, and i think those things are going to take a toll on him. they won't take a toll on his base. he's going to win 35% of the populous regardless, but those swing voters in the middle i think will turn away from donald trump unlike what they did in 2016. >> alice, there are people like acting dhs secretary like kevin mcaleenan. he's out. this is frankly another person in a long line of people who are out in the administration. this is after a recent "washington post" article quoted him saying that he felt frustrated, isolated. secretary pompeo's senior adviser stepped down yesterday. we've been talking about trump trying to distance himself from giuliani, but maybe people want to do the reverse and get away from trump.
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are you seeing that now? >> look, i'm not surprised that mcaleenan stepped down, and i'm not surprised tha he gave the reason spending more time with his family and his friends. but as much turmoil as we see that's going on in the white house and the palace intrigue, it is certainly something that we can talk about here and is the fodder for a lot of newsrooms across the country. but, again, i bring it back to his base and the people out there at his rallies and many of them across middle america, they are not concerned with the palace intrigue. they're not concerned with the developing drama, this going on with the impeachment inquiry and the supreme court. and you said yourself, laura, just a few moments ago, with the way the democrats are handling this impeachment, they're doing so at their own detriment, and they need to keep it simple if they're going to be effective and not get too in the weeds on this because after all the two years we went through with mueller, it left a lot of people very frustrated. and if this impeachment inquiry goes the same direction with
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raising the level of expectations without anything to show for it at the end, there's going to be a lot of people, democrats included, that are going to be very frustrated with the democrats. >> i wonder how it ends in the long run. bakari, i'm sorry i could not get back to you. i wanted to hear your views on it. but thank you both. and thank you for watching. our coverage continues. a wealth of information. a wealth of perspective. ♪ a wealth of opportunities. that's the clarity you get from fidelity wealth management. straightforward advice, tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. fidelity wealth management.
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we start a two-hour broadcast tonight with some breaking news. a cabinet official who recently told "the washington post" he didn't have control over the, quote, tone, the message, the public face, and approach, unquote of his department has announced his departure. the department of homeland security chief, kevin mcaleenan, is out. it occurs the same day a judge said that the administration could not use military funding to build the border wall. here with more tonight is cnn's kaitlan collins. so what do we know about his departure? >> reporter: anderson, this is sudden with the president just now tweeting, announcing the news himself. but of course if you talk to people here in the white house, they saw this coming for a very long time, ever since kevin mcaleenan first got named to this job under, of course, an acting position. people never envisioned him taking the job in a permanent role, and he was often someone at odds with the president and some of his top advisers, including stephen miller, ken cuccinelli, and their roles and where they wanted to go on immigration. now, there were times whe

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